Cool Blind Tech’s James Oates
Spotlight Interview with Jenny Lay-Flurrie,
Chief Accessibility Officer at Microsoft
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>> James Oates: One of the questions I hear a lot is people want their products to be accessible out of the box. So they don’t want to rely on having on add a third party application to make that accessible. And I know in the past Microsoft has always kind of leaned on third parties
>> Jenny Lay Flurrie: Yes.
>> James Oates: to make their products accessible. Is that changing? Are they now thinking that accessibility is a responsibility of Microsoft and it should be accessible out of the box?
>> Jenny Lay Flurrie: So we’re actually building and adding that in. So, yes, it’s something we’re very, very much aware of. And we are working on that.
>> James Oates: Well, that’s good news, because I wasn’t, you know, just had no way of knowing that before talking to you right now. So I didn’t know that
>> Jenny Lay Flurrie: And we haven’t shared it yet. So you’re getting the exclusive.
>> James Oates: We’ve got a breaking story from here from Cool Blind Tech.
>> Jenny Lay Flurrie: Now you know.
>> James Oates: “Narrator” has the capability of assisting a person set up windows for the first time. So if you just bought a new computer
>> Jenny Lay Flurrie: Yes.
>> James Oates: I don’t know if people are aware that you’ve made the change where you can activate Narrator right away during the set up process.
>> Jenny Lay Flurrie: Yep.
>> James Oates: So there’s no longer any need for visual assistance in setting up your new computer. So that you can then get a third party application. You can just turn on Narrator by pressing Windows.
Announcer: Welcome to Cool Blind Tech.
[Music]
>> James Oates: Welcome to another spotlight interview from Cool Blind Tech. I’m James Oates, and today we’re joined by Microsoft’s Chief Accessibility Officer Jenny Lay Flurrie.
Jenny, welcome to the call.
>> Jenny Lay Flurrie: Thank you very much for having me, guys.
>> James Oates: Well, first off before we get into the serious stuff, I’d like to congratulate you on becoming an American citizen.
>> Jenny Lay Flurrie: Thank you.
>> James Oates: That was a big moment for us to get you to join up with us and become one of us, so…
>> Jenny Lay Flurrie: It was a fun thing. And very important, you know, it’s a very important time, I think. And I’ve been here 10 years, so it was time to formalize the deal.
>> James Oates: Well, we’re very happy to have you be one of us now.
>> Jenny Lay Flurrie: Game on.
>> James Oates: Well, my first question to you is I believe you took over as Chief Accessibility Officer back in January of this year. And my question is, at that time, what did you see as the biggest accessibility issues for the blind community that Microsoft had to deal with?
>> Jenny Lay Flurrie: Yeah, I know I did come into the role in January, but I’ve been in the company 12 years. Originally in the UK and then moved over here 10 years ago and spent the last six, seven years working on accessibility IHV, kind of always call it my second career as I was working in technical support leadership before. And really it was my own disability that led me down the path.
My speech is deceptive, but I am profoundly deaf and sitting here with my interpreter. And I think that led me down the path of really sitting with not just the deaf community that I became apart of at Microsoft, but then every other community at Microsoft, including the blind community. And the reason that I went full time into this was really to help to advocate for what was needed and start pushing this harder and further forward.
And I did that internally. So it’s been great in January to now have that more external role. And I think we I came in at an interesting time. We’ve got a long history of accessibility at Microsoft. And we’ve had moments of sheer brilliance and moments of absolutely not. And I think we had a tough year last year. I think we had some products that came out nowhere near the right level of acceptability. And as a result, you know, understandable frustration from some folks. We also had some products that were, and some innovations that were coming up that were really hot and interesting. And a lot of momentum, I mean, we have a very empowered community here in the company, a lot of great experts, and a real passion that comes from the top down to empower. I mean the mission of the company is kind of nice: It’s to empower people and organizations to do more and achieve more. And that speaks to us.
So I came in with a clear charter to work on products, services, websites, and to really improve that across the number. And not just me, not just my team, but across the company with a wave of investment that we put in on accessibility. And I also work to make this systematic and sustainable and just sticky within the company. So my group is not just invested in product. We’re invested in things like inclusive hiring, innovation, training, and our connections with customers and NGO’s and disability groups who are ultimately the expert. And so you know I came in with that charter which I think was a nice remit to working for [sic].
>> James Oates: Do you feel that in your first few months on the job that you’ve made headway in making the products and services more accessible?
>> Jenny Lay Flurrie: You know, it’s interesting. I’m impatient. And I do think that this broadly is a stagnant where there’s a lot we haven’t even hit the tip of the iceberg of what’s possible. So, yeah, I feel like there has been some amazing investments in our products that are now being materially seen. We had a very strong release of Windows this summer and some great improvement. Still a long way to go, but you know, some good improvements coming through. And on the flip side we also had some great improvements in Office. And those are beginning to come through in our Office 365 product. The greatness of Cloud is that we can release every month, right? And so those are rolling through right now.
So I’d say, yes, we really have made some great strides. Clearly though when I say “tip of the iceberg,” there’s an enormous amount left to do. And the future, I think, is what gets me really excited. Because there’s so much more that’s possible when you look at technology broadly. But know there’s some really concerted effort across a whole variety of spaces. And even as simple as looking at our own websites and our hiring sites and things, those have been [inaudible] as well.
>> James Oates: That actually brings up something that I wanted to mention is the Office 365, because it rolls out with updates regularly, do you recommend that people with disabilities subscribe to that rather than purchasing a hard copy of Office 2013 or 2016, so that they can get those accessible features as they roll out?
>> Jenny Lay Flurrie: Yes, I do. And not just, I mean, ultimately that’s the recommendation from Microsoft at this point. I mean, really do get do become part of the Cloud. Don’t be scared of it. It doesn’t rain. It’s not a scary Cloud. It is something that gives us the capability to be a lot more agile, to take feedback from customers, and very quickly turn that around into features that are released. And we’re on a monthly release path, right? So I do recommend Office 365 as opposed to boxed at this point. And in fact our investments are all in the Cloud. That’s not to say that the future box versions, we will clearly mirror those investments, but if you’re making a choice today, that is the one that I would absolutely put you to.
>> James Oates: On the area of Office 365, I know that one of the biggest accessibility concerns has been with OneNote. Has Microsoft made any strides in that area?
>> Jenny Lay Flurrie: Yeah. Our investment has been across the Office 365 Suite. So just to give you a sense on, you know, the scope and scale on that, when I say Office 365, that includes Skype, the Business. It includes Outlook. It includes Excel, Word, PowerPoint. Now the good news is that the investment across the suite which includes OneNote has dramatically increased. I mean we’ve got a ridiculous number of engineers ridiculously good hopefully sorry, it’s a very British term that are really working hard to increase features across each one of those discrete product sets. OneNote is one of them. SharePoint is another, Word and Excel and also Mail and Outlook. So, yes, that is part.
Now what you’ll see is the improvements across those are coming out on a monthly basis. And it’s improvements not just in keyboard ordering, being able to access all of the functioning, flagging in outlook, [unclear], and really with not just our first [unclear], it’s with the Inbox, Narrator, but also with third party AC, but also looking at high contrast as well, and themes and the color themes that so many use. And I myself use the darker theme. I find it useful. And so, yes, the investments have been across this Suite path.
>> James Oates: You’ve made some great strides with OneDrive. It’s perfect now. It was kind of an iffy thing before, but OneDrive is you’ve nailed it. And the built in e mail application is fantastic as well. Window’s Mail is very accessible. Groove Music is fantastic. So you’ve made some wonderful changes.
And I know yesterday we were lucky enough to come out and do this recording the day after an announcement. You guys announced Microsoft Team. Is that going to be accessible also or is it going to require some work as it rolls out?
>> Jenny Lay Flurrie: It’s a beta product right now. It’s an exciting collaboration environment. So again, if you think about Office 365, one of the great things about that product, being in the Cloud, is that I can sit there reviewing a document, and at the same time a colleague across the office or on my team in the UK or wherever they might be, can be reviewing that document. And I can see those changes coming in real time. So it’s really impactful. That’s what I see just day to day. You know, we’re constantly looking at PowerPoints and on Word, that’s the capability to really collaborate. Microsoft it seems takes it to a slightly different level where you’re not just able to collaborate and use all those floors, we’re also able to tap on them. So you know I was playing with it a little bit last night. Now it’s a beta product. And I would be transparent and just say it’s not where I want it to be and where we want it to be on accessibility today. But what you’ll see is those features ought to be coming out over the course of the next few weeks. And it won’t go to general availability until accessible is where we want it to be. And so that’s the commitment that the product team has made and that we make on that.
So, yeah, we’ll be posting announcements when we recommend, go for it and have a play. It’s got some challenges today. Today, being the beginning of November. But hopefully within a few weeks time that will flip. That’s more of our broader commitment. You know, we really do want to make sure that what we launch and what we push out can be usable and is empowering for all, right? So that’s just a general commitment that we do make.
>> James Oates: Yeah. And definitely and that’s important that everybody have that empowerment and be productive and do the things that they need to do with their devices and their technology. One of the questions I hear a lot is people want their products to be accessible out of the box. So they don’t want to rely on having to add a third party application to make that accessible. And I know in the past Microsoft has always kind of leaned on third parties
>> Jenny Lay Flurrie: Yes.
>> James Oates: to make their products accessible. Is that changing? Are they now thinking that accessibility is a responsibility of Microsoft and it should be accessible out of the box?
>> Jenny Lay Flurrie: And I heard, you’ve been playing with Narrator; right.
>> James Oates: Oh yes. Yes. Since the anniversary update, it’s fantastic.
>> Jenny Lay Flurrie: Great to hear. Yeah, we kind of I think we definitely had a leverage of third party strategy. And that doesn’t change. We want to empower the third party ecosystem. It’s incredibly important, not just for the blind but tons of other areas as well. I mean this is we were just talking this morning, learning disabilities, mobility, there are so many devices out there that are customize to individual that really matter. And being able to plug it in via a USB and have it connected in is crucial. And so our investment in third party AT, including Screen Reader, whether that’s with JAWS, NVDA, or any of the beautiful others, we absolutely want to empower that.
But at the same time, yeah, we do want to make sure that we’re investing in our own box, and that includes Narrator. And you’ll see a lot of improvements in Narrator in the anniversary update which was kind of fun to push some of those out. And that was really a lot of performance improvements, reliability, usability. So the faster text to speech voices, the new languages, user guide, and just how we worked that through with Edge and Cortana and Mail and Groove, and also certain developer improvement, new tools, documentation, [unclear] and you UI framework improvements. So a lot of advancement into that, and you’ll see that continue into next year as well.
>> James Oates: Well, that leads me into a topic, I did want to get in, specifically into Narrator. Now I’ve tested Narrator thoroughly, and it’s actually my primary Screen Reader in most situations now.
>> Jenny Lay Flurrie: That’s fantastic. Congrats. That will pump up the team.
>> James Oates: Now what Narrator does, I mean, it’s just able to read everything And it never has a problem on active elements, which some of the third parties do from time to time. So I mean it’s frustrating when you’re using a third party application, you click on something, and nothing happens. And that doesn’t seem to be the case with Narrator in all of my testing. So I’m very pleased with its functionality, but there are a couple of areas that Narrator does need to address.
>> Jenny Lay Flurrie: Yeah.
>> James Oates: And I wanted to see if these are areas you’re aware of, the first one is, Narrator is the only major Screen Reader that I’m aware of that doesn’t offer Braille display support.
>> Jenny Lay Flurrie: Uh huh.
>> James Oates: And for people who are blind, who need to be able to read what’s on the screen, it’s great that the computer can talk to you, but you do need to be able to read it as well. Is Microsoft working on adding Braille display support or are they still going to require third party Screen Readers for that?
>> Jenny Lay Flurrie: We are actively building Braille support to Narrator. So we’re actually building and adding that in. So, yes, it’s something we’re very, very much aware of. And we are working on that.
>> James Oates: Well, that’s good news, because I wasn’t I just had no way of knowing that before talking to you right now. So I didn’t know that
>> Jenny Lay Flurrie: And we haven’t shared it yet. So you know, you get the exclusive.
>> James Oates: We’ve got a breaking story here from Cool Blind Tech.
>> Jenny Lay Flurrie: There you go. But it’s not something that I’ll share more on now.
>> James Oates: Okay.
>> Jenny Lay Flurrie: I’ll tease you a little.
>> James Oates: Tease us.
>> Jenny Lay Flurrie: And say there’s more to come. And it’s early days, right?
>> James Oates: Okay.
>> Jenny Lay Flurrie: So I don’t want to it would it’s definitely, I would say, across the board there’s a lot of learning that we’ll do as we walk through this. And I kind of encourage people to try it out when we get to that point and to give us their feedback. But, yeah, it is an area that we’re incredibly aware of. And you know, again we’re impatient, so we’ll move as fast as we can. But we are actively working on that.
>> James Oates: Well, I’ll push, but you might not answer me, but can we expect something by the time Creator’s update comes out?
>> Jenny Lay Flurrie: Oh, you can push all you like. And you know I admire you for doing so, but that’s all I’m going to say now. But we are planning one of the things that we did in January when we came in, we’ve really set out some key value. And those key values were to be transparent. And then inclusive and accountable which I’m sure just, you know, is logical and makes sense. So I’m a big fan of being transparent where we can with those road maps. And we do periodically post road maps of what’s coming up. And we’re hoping to get another one of those out in the next couple months. And clearly this will be a part of that.
So it’s to tease but also we will put out that information. We think it’s important, right? I know it’s important for me to know what’s coming with technology. I rely on technology every day to do my job. And I know I’m not the only one. So it’s hopefully that will continue. So the things that people want to know about, you know, do tweet me, do let me know, do, you know, ask the questions. The worst you’ll get from me is a “no,” and you know we’ll include it in those announcements.
>> James Oates: Well, it’s just important to know that Microsoft has the commitment to something that’s vitally important to the users of the products. So I’m glad to hear that.
>> Jenny Lay Flurrie: I love it. And you know feedback wise, one of the things we’re trying to do is you are clearly trying the products out, which is fantastic, and giving the feedback, and ultimately that’s all we want, right? And so there’s multiple different ways, right, you can actually add feedback within Narrator.
>> James Oates: Caps Lock E, isn’t it, to do the feedback?
>> Jenny Lay Flurrie: Game on.
>> James Oates: Yeah, Caps Lock E to do feedback.
>> Jenny Lay Flurrie: There’s also a couple others, right? There’s, if you just search on Microsoft accessibility user voice, you bring up the forum. And there’s a ton of you just chuck it in there, and my team is all over that every day. And also I have to mention the disability answer desk which is our support. We call it “DAD,” which is our support channel. We always have, you know, [unclear] products, hey, I’ve got this challenge with navigating using JAWS and Office, whatever it might be. And that channel a year ago was taking four or five thousand contacts a month. It’s now around, I think in the last couple of months it’s been over 20,000. But that’s also a quick easy way, if you’ve got a question, to chuck it to us. And that’s also a great thing, for me very selfishly, it’s a great way of me getting feedback from folks. Because we hear the areas, you know, what are people asking about, what do people need more information on. And then honestly that cycles back in and we then do knowledge documents on it, videos on it. You know, we’re looking at doing podcasts in the future. We haven’t figured that one out, but it’s definitely on the radar.
>> James Oates: Well, you can have us do that for you.
>> Jenny Lay Flurrie: Well, there you go, right?
>> James Oates: All you’ve got to do is contact us and tell us what you need done and we’ll roll out with it. Podcasting is what we do. So we’ll roll that out for you.
>> Jenny Lay Flurrie: I see that you are the experts. I do not claim to be the expert on that. Not many in the deaf community really consume podcasts, that has to be said. But you know I have several folks on my team who are big proponents of that. The one thing with my team is we built it out. We’ve been lucky enough to hire some great talent with visual blindness and sight loss. So they’re definitely pushing me hard on it. And game on, I’m all up for that.
>> James Oates: Yeah, and there’s also, for those who don’t know, there’s Windows F for just general feedback. You can then pick the category. And Narrator is one of the categories under ease of access. So you can actually go in there and select it that way in feedback.
>> Jenny Lay Flurrie: Maybe you should be doing our podcasts, right? I dig it.
>> James Oates: You really should, yeah, you really should just contact me and tell me what it is you need done. And we’ll do it. You know, we’ve got a good team here. We can all roll it out.
>> Jenny Lay Flurrie: [Inaudible].
>> James Oates: The next thing I want to get to is Narrator has the capability of assisting a person set up Windows for the first time. So if you just bought a new computer
>> Jenny Lay Flurrie: Yes.
>> James Oates: I don’t know if people are aware that you’ve made the change where you can activate Narrator right away during the set up process.
>> Jenny Lay Flurrie: Yep.
>> James Oates: So there’s no longer any need for visual assistance in setting up your new computer so that you can then get a third party application. You can just turn on Narrator by pressing Windows key enter. And you have the set up. And I hear that you’re working on even expanding that for ISO disk issues as well; is that correct?
>> Jenny Lay Flurrie: Yeah. That whole area, you know, again just being accessible out of the box, literally out of the cardboard box as you get your device out, has been an area of investment with the Windows team. So, you know, kudos to them in pulling that out. And yes, they are expanding that. In terms of ISO, I need to double check on that one, but it sounds like you’ve tried it. And did it help and work for you?
>> Jenny Lay Flurrie: Yeah. I just bought an HP last month and I was able to just literally without any sighted assistance, I was able to plug it in and you know go throughout set up process. And it was a very pleasant surprise.
>> Jenny Lay Flurrie: Awesome. That’s what we want, right? I think that’s what any manufacturer wants is the ability for you to get it out of the box, and whether it’s Christmas day or any day, just be able to pull it out and play with your new toy.
>> James Oates: And that’s what I was talking about earlier when I was saying the out of the box experience. A lot of people, you know, want that no matter what device they buy, to be functional without having that concern of having to then either get sighted assistance to set it up or having to get a third party application to make it work. That’s what I was driving at earlier on those questions about Microsoft’s commitment to fully functional without third party. I know you’re still supporting third party, and there’s nothing wrong with that. But I think there are a lot of people who think that they shouldn’t have to have a third party application for their product to work.
>> Jenny Lay Flurrie: Yeah, there’s lots of different ways of and I’m sorry if I misunderstood your question earlier out of the box for us, we often use or in box we use to describing the in box accessibility features totally get what you’re saying around literally out of the cardboard box as you’re unpacking a toy. Yeah, you know, I get there’s a lot of polarized views here I think on technology. Ultimately we want to empower at both ends. We’ve clearly had a third party AT strategy and that’s still core to what we do. There’s also a need for us to empower those that do just want to, you know, click it on and off you go. And I’d say what we often find as the, particularly folks here, and we’ve got a lot of people who use JAWS, use NVDA, use different Screen Readers for different things, and then will also use Narrator full time. So I, you know, go between different tools. So I think some of it’s personal and it’s human choice, right? What works best for you, what environment do you play the most in, but yeah, ultimately like anyone, we want anyone to be able to open a box and be able to turn it on and get into all of the in box apps, right?
>> James Oates: Oh yeah definitely. I mean the question of the third parties just kind of revolves around I mean, what they do at NVDA and with JAWS is fantastic.
>> Jenny Lay Flurrie: Yeah.
>> James Oates: The question is, we’ll start, what if they can’t afford it. Because you know, the JAWS for example, you know, it has a price tag on it. NVDA is free, but what if they all of a sudden close their doors? You know, what if the organization stops making the software? Then a person who has purchased you know this expensive computer, potentially, you know what kind of access are they going to have.
>> Jenny Lay Flurrie: Um hmm.
>> James Oates: It’s great to have the third parties and have the options, but you know what happens when, you know, if those third parties aren’t available?
>> Jenny Lay Flurrie: Well, hopefully that does not happen. They are great guys and they’re doing an amazing job. So you know clearly we stay in the ability to do both. And that’s our strategy as we move forward. And hopefully we are very, very aware of the cost factor. In fact one of the actual agreements that we have was with GW Micro, which I know is now part of the broader, to offer free access through that product by users of Office, of Microsoft Office. So that was one of the things we did do a while back and that’s still continuing. If you purchase Windows Office and Microsoft Office, you do have the ability to get the Screen Reader Window Eyes for free.
So yeah, there’s things that we can definitely do to help there. Not just ensure that we’ve got a great strategy across both in box and third party or third party and first party, but also making sure that that cost factor is something we look at. And so we’re dual strategists, and I think that’s the right thing for us right now.
>> James Oates: Yeah and that’s I mean, that’s never a bad approach definitely, you know, hitting all fronts is not a bad approach at all. So I can’t argue with that. The next area is Microsoft has expanded on accessibility beyond just their computers. They’ve now reached out to Xbox now has a Narrator on it. I remember how excited I was in 2014 when I realized that Narrator was on Windows phone for the first time. So what is the strategy for accessibility on Xbox and Windows mobile?
>> Jenny Lay Flurrie: So part of the Windows core in having that came with Windows 10 was making sure that the core elements between each of the devices was aligned. So some of the same features that you find in Windows, you’re now finding on the Xbox. Now it’s early days, so I don’t want to overstate, but that does mean that Narrator has hit the Xbox. And so that’s an area of investment for the team. It’s a great team that’s working on it. And they’re also looking at other features in the future. So some of the core elements are going to be shifting across the different platforms. So yeah, it’s a we all want a game at the end of the day. And I was channeling with colleagues last week, and it’s not just the ability to game yourself, as a parent, you want to game with your kids. And so that area is something that we really want to empower and help people to do.
>> James Oates: Yeah, you’ve there’s been, I know, what was it when Madden 2016 came out with some settings for low vision users to play the game. I mean obviously it still wouldn’t talk to you, but you could change the settings if you have low vision issues.
>> Jenny Lay Flurrie: Um hmm.
>> James Oates: That was great news. And I know you guys are working hard to make gaming more accessible as well. And I know it must be a big challenge for you.
>> Jenny Lay Flurrie: It is a big one, but it’s so important. We’ve found that gaming is not just it’s not just about getting people access. Some of these games can be incredibly valuable. We’ve never promoted gaming for disability, but I do think that one of the e mails that hits my inbox pretty much every day of the week is either a parent of a kid here at Microsoft or someone external who is sharing a story of how gaming has helped them as a parent, whether it’s Minecraft with autism or the connect was very strong for a long time. And so there’s a huge opportunity, as I said in the beginning, we’re touching the surface of what I think technology can do for this broad community and broad segment of the way to engage and to learn and to consume in a completely different way. So gaming is a pretty fun and exciting area.
>> James Oates: Where is and sorry if I’m putting you behind the eight ball, but just like you I want it now.
[Chuckles]
Where is Microsoft as far as accessibility on Windows mobile? I haven’t looked at Windows mobile in a while. I was an initial Windows 10 mobile tester when it was in beta.
>> Jenny Lay Flurrie: Yeah, that’s a while back.
>> James Oates: It has been quite a while back. So where is it now? I’m sure it’s changed a lot.
>> Jenny Lay Flurrie: It’s again it’s got the core in it. And so Narrator is part of the Windows platform broadly. So you’ll see some of the componentry. No, I think mobile holistically as the company is going through some change, and I think that’s reflected a little. But clearly all of what we do is now mobile. I think also the framing, it’s not just about a mobile phone anymore, any device that you have is essentially mobile now. I walk around with my Surface Pro all day long. It fits in my bag. And I hammer this device. So I think the concept of mobile is also shifting a little bit with technology. But again, just the core, that’s what really is a component of that. And I think it might be great over time, maybe, as we think about future podcasts to bring some of those folks, just some of the Windows folks, and really give you the Narrator under the covers on what’s coming up in the future. Would that be sounds like something that would be of interest, right?
>> James Oates: Oh God yeah. Yeah, we’d love that.
>> Jenny Lay Flurrie: Yeah! Let’s make sure that we do that. I think that’s a great sort of next step. We love your podcast. We listen to them ourselves. And so let’s make sure that we do that.
>> James Oates: Yeah, any insider information and any updates and feedback and back and forth. You know, you want feedback from us and we’d love feedback from you as well. So that would be great.
>> Jenny Lay Flurrie: Yeah! It’s totally all in, right? It’s vital for us to get that feedback, and so there’s some great folks that I’m sure we’ll bring in for the next one.
>> James Oates: Yeah, and it’s vital for us, too, because we need to know, you know, when we’re making a decision on what to invest and what’s going to be best for us to know where the company is going, what their commitment is.
Which it brings me to my next topic: In the blindness community there are quite a few people out there who are still using Windows 7. And the reason for that is because when Windows 7 rolled out, it became a pretty stable operating system for people who are blind and visually impaired that they could rely on for their productivity. And as other operating systems have rolled out
>> Jenny Lay Flurrie: Um hmm.
>> James Oates: a lot of people have been concerned or unwilling to update, because they know that what they have right now works and they’re a little concerned about moving into something that may or may not work. And as you know productivity is something that you know you can’t risk. Would you have any advice and we’re now up to Windows 10 anniversary update, and Windows 10 Creator’s update is coming soon, would you have anything you’d like to say to people who are still holding onto Window’s 7 experience?
>> Jenny Lay Flurrie: Well, I want to acknowledge. I mean there was definitely I’d say you know as I said at the beginning there was definitely some stuff that we we’re not proud of in some ways. And that Windows Messaging, now sort of 18 months ago, was definitely one of those. Just in terms of we want to always put out a product that we recommend holistically, the whole community moves to. And so we definitely shed some learning from that. But I would say that, please, if you’re looking at what you have on Windows 7 upgrade. Please, upgrade. It is just an incredible number of features and investments that have been made in Narrator and the anniversary update. It’s a strong release. Everyone here, and I have five folks with different VI on my team, we’re all on it. We’ve all been on it for a long time. And like you, many are now Narrator, huge advocates.
And so we’ve still got a long ways to go, but some of the features, and I would say the grounding in Narrator is definitely there. And the one thing that we did do to acknowledge, you know, really what we did put out there, was we did say that the free upgrade, which it was for the first year on Windows 10, we extended for those using AT and accessibility. And we extended that. There’s a link. And we can give you that link. Maybe we can pop it on the site. So if you’re considering upgrading, do check it out. There’s a lot of information and documentation on that site, on that link, and ultimately it’s a free upgrade.
And then if you have any questions as you go through it, there’s documentation, but there’s also the DAD team, that disability answer desk, which it’s got a 1 800 number you can call. It’s also got chat, accessible chat, if you don’t want to pick up the phone, and you want to find out, hey, I use this app and it works. If you want to find any details out about that upgrade, there’s a whole environment set up to help you with it. So I would say “pull the trigger; go for it!” And don’t fear it. It absolutely is there, and we’ve taken the feedback and we’ve worked hard on it. And the Windows team has done a fantastic job. And they’re still heads down working on the next level of release.
>> James Oates: and I will include the link to the free upgrade in the show notes along with that 800 number as well to make it more convenient.
>> Jenny Lay Flurrie: Great.
>> James Oates: So people know exactly where to go to get that upgrade. And it’s great that you’re still you know, you don’t have to do this it’s great that you’re still offering the free upgrade for people who are using assistive technology. I know a lot of people out there appreciate that.
>> Jenny Lay Flurrie: Yeah, we are getting a lot of folks downloading. And so and also we’re seeing that that is correlated in the calls that we’re getting. So it’s great. And it’s the right step. And you know Windows 10 isn’t just about a great level of accessibility, it’s also the more secure release we’ve put out there. There’s a ton of other improvements in Windows 10. So do take the time to read up on it. It’s one where I walked my own dad through it the other day. It’s so important, I think. There’s so much reliability that comes with this OS. It’s well worth the shift.
>> James Oates: Yeah, the Windows Defender is amazing now. When you said security, that’s the first thing that popped in my head is the changes you made to Defender.
>> Jenny Lay Flurrie: Yeah.
>> James Oates: And that’s not an accessibility issue, but it is definitely a security and protection issue.
>> Jenny Lay Flurrie: And it’s a nice UI. It’s fairly straightforward, pretty simple. I find it great it’s easy. You can use Cortana pretty simply, great search within it. So it’s a nice intuitive OS.
>> James Oates: This brings it you’ve answered a lot of questions. You’ve given our listeners a lot of background and details of what’s going on. So where do you see the future I mean, obviously not in details but where do you see the future in general as far as accessibility over the next couple years with Microsoft?
>> Jenny Lay Flurrie: I’ve learned a lot, you know, clearly over the last few years, but definitely in the last 10 months. I think I and many others on my team are just encouraged and impassioned by the number of connections that we’re getting across the span of the accessibility community and the disability community. We’ve had so many folks reaching out for information, wanting to partner with great ideas, with great feedback, wanting to know how they can help us as we move forward. And we’re leaning into a lot of those already and probably more in the future. I think where accessibility is going for Microsoft, it is a key priority for the company. It is directly connected to the mission of the company. It’s something where there’s key commitments across the company. It’s not just me. There’s a lot of people like me across the company that are in every room asking the question. And I think that for me means that we’ll continue to have hopefully success as we move forward.
We’ve got a lot of work to do. We’ve released some strong updates this year, but there’s a lot more to come. And I think the opportunity with technology I look constantly at things like the unemployment rate. It’s a big area of passion for me And it depresses me but it also motivates me of what is possible with technology. We know that Microsoft is one of the major employment software and devices that are used. And we’d love to be part of helping make that change happen. So I think, for me, it’s about continuing to keep those updates living into the values that we set out with the transparency and being accountable for it. That means not making promises that we can’t deliver on. And that means being really honest and in some ways under promising and over delivering on what we do across the span of the product set. So yeah, we’re going to keep going I think is the big future for us right now.
>> James Oates: Well, Jenny, we’ve reached the end of our time. We really appreciate you joining us. We are big fans of what you’re doing at Microsoft. We are quite aware of the challenges that you’re facing and the advancements that you’re making there. And we are very happy with the work that you’re doing. And we would love to be supportive in any way we can in any future work that you’re doing there as well. But most importantly thank you for joining us and sharing. And we’d love to have you back at some point.
>> Jenny Lay Flurrie: Thank you so much for all that you do. It is so important to get the word out there on tech. And we appreciate you, your feedback, keep it coming. And please, any questions, do harass. I’m all in.
>> James Oates: Well, thank you very much. We have been joined today by Microsoft’s Chief Accessibility Officer Ms. Jenny Lay Flurrie. And if you have any questions, you can contact us at CBT@CoolBlindTech.com. You can e mail me James@CoolBlindTech.com. And of course follow us on Twitter at Cool Blind Tech.
Once again, thank you for listening to this very special spotlight interview from Cool Blind Tech, and we will talk to you again very soon.
[End of interview]
>> So now you can see that we’ve blanked the screen. So I’m going to press H to jump to the first header.
>> Heading level one, go to Bing home page.
>> And it will kind of immerse you in what that is like to not see
>> Click down to change to suggestions view.
>> Across many applications when you’re typing, whether it’s weather, news, Cortana, you’re getting cert suggestions
>> [Unclear] one of one, selected.
>> It’s the first time that we’re building that level of accessibility into both our Screen Reader and our applications.
>> I’m going to flag this message.
>> Contact delete button, move button, set flag button.
>> So with Windows 10, the edge team really wanted to do our part and make accessibility great on the web.
>> Enter hub.
>> Whether the Screen Reader, whether it’s high contrast, whether it’s keyboard only
>> At level three, drag able.
>> It was really about making it more usable and more intuitive for all of our users.
[End of program]
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